The Power of Listening to your Body for Happy, Healthy, Long Life

In this episode

We have all heard about the importance of listening to our body, but what does that actually mean?
How can we know what our body is telling us about our health and well-being? How about the way we age?

In today’s episode, we’re incredibly fortunate to have Dr. Chris Gilbert, MD PhD, a renowned physician specializing in holistic, integrative, and mind-body medicine, along with her husband, Dr. Eric Haseltine, PhD, an expert in neuroscience and psychology.

In our discussion, we’ll bring awareness to the importance of listening to our body sensations and accepting our full emotional range, along with practical tips that we can use to help start this process. As it turns out, this approach not only makes our lives happier and healthier but, not surprisingly, may also promote longevity.

• Dr. Patti Shelton, MD, LongevIQ medical communications officer
• Amir Ginsberg, LongevIQ founder.

Episode summary

Related articles, podcast notes & links

• Contact: Dr. Gilbert website, Dr. Haseltine website
• Books: The Listening Cure
• Articles:
  A Creative Recipe to Better Appreciate Life
  Your Brain Is Only As Old As You Think It Is

Main topics

• (0:00:00) Podcast and episode intro, medical disclaimer
• (0:03:08) Expressing and releasing emotions with Gestalt therapy
• (0:07:12) The importance of seeing the glass as half full
• (0:08:44) How to listen to your body? Physical signs to be aware of
• (0:11:56) Why do people repress their emotions?
• (0:12:55) The connection between chronic stress, inflammation and repressed emotions
• (0:15:50) Techniques for managing stress
• (0:18:54) The importance of accepting all emotions
• (0:21:31) Choosing happy and healthy relationships for happy, healthy and long life
• (0:27:23) How do you actually listen to your body? Tips and exercises
• (0:34:21) Becoming aware of warning signs before they become a larger problem
• (0:39:45) Bringing the future into the present for a happy life, the Weber-Fechner law
• (0:44:46) The benefits of meditation
• (0:47:19) How our foods and gut bacteria affect our mood and happiness
• (0:50:20) Tips to help with sugar cravings
• (0:54:31) The importance of acceptance in healthy aging
• (0:56:12) Becoming a SuperAger: youthful aging as a self-fulfilling prophecy
• (1:00:51) Finding and nurturing who you truly are

Transcript

This podcast episode was edited to improve readability.

Podcast and episode intro, medical disclaimer

Dr. Patti (00:00:00): This is Dr. Patti Shelton, and you are listening to the LongevIQ podcast. We discuss anti-aging and longevity science and how to benefit from it so we can all live long, healthy, happy lives.

Just before we get started, a quick medical disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or to provide or replace medical advice. Please use this information to educate yourself as much as possible and share this information with a qualified health practitioner that you trust.

We have all heard about the importance of listening to our body, but what does that actually mean?
How can we know what our body is telling us about our health and well-being? How about the way we age?

In today’s episode, we’re incredibly fortunate to have Dr. Chris Gilbert, MD PhD, a renowned physician specializing in holistic, integrative, and mind-body medicine, along with her husband, Dr. Eric Haseltine, PhD, an expert in neuroscience and psychology.

In our discussion, we’ll bring awareness to the importance of listening to our body sensations and accepting our full emotional range, along with practical tips that we can use to help start this process. As it turns out, this approach not only makes our lives happier and healthier but, not surprisingly, may also promote longevity.

Also joining us today, as always, is Amir Ginsberg, the founder of LongevIQ. Welcome, Dr. Gilbert and Dr. Haseltine. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:01:34] Dr. Gilbert: Thank you for having us.

[00:01:35] Dr. Haseltine: Great to be here.

[00:01:36] Dr. Patti: We’d love for you to start by telling us a little about your approach. An Overview of how you think about health, happiness, and longevity.

[00:01:45] Dr. Gilbert: They’re very related. Health is related to happiness. So people that are happy that they have techniques for being happy, for appreciating life usually are healthy because it helps boost their immune system. It makes them stronger, and as a consequence, it makes them have longer life. So it’s all related, and that’s what I teach my patients. And what about the neuroscience of it, Eric?

[00:02:14] Dr. Haseltine: There’s a growing field called Psychoneuroimmunology in which it’s clear now that there’s a very tight link between mental state and emotional state on the one hand and immune on the other. So this works at least in two ways. One is your mental state can depress your immune system. Or it can get your immune system to be overactive through chronic stress, in which case you get inflammation and autoimmune disease. So in both ways, staying happy and healthy is important to your immune system, which has a huge effect on your physical and mental health.

[00:02:52] Dr. Patti: What a fantastic message. Really important message for people to hear. You have had a pretty unusual journey, a lot of wide-ranging interests. So just tell us a little bit about how you came to explore happiness and health and how you ended up where you are now.

Expressing and releasing emotions with Gestalt therapy

[00:03:08] Dr. Gilbert: I was working as a physician in the suburb of Paris, France, because I’m of French origin. You can hear my accent. Couldn’t get rid of it. And then I visited the United States, and I stumbled across somebody having a gestalt session in the United States, a gestalt therapy session.

In France, my patients were complaining of a lot of different illnesses. Some of them were difficult to treat. A lot of my patients had repressed feelings, repressed sadness, and repressed anger. And even though I was doing regular conventional medicine, but also homeopathy and acupuncture, some of those symptoms were very difficult for me to treat.

And then that Gestalt therapy session I stumbled onto was spectacular. It was just like a click happening in my brain. It was, oh my God, Somebody is expressing their sadness in a spectacular, dramatic way. Crying and pounding and being so, like letting go of sadness so much. And then that same person was switching seats and expressing the anger in a cathartic way pounding on pillows and screaming and saying how angry that person was.

And then that person was switching seats and talking about how needy that person was and how they wanted to be hugged and loved. That was so dramatic, so spectacular, and such a release for that person. There was an open seat technique, which means that the person was demonstrating on stage, and we were like 15 other people looking and listening. Being in the audience was not only cathartic for that person, but it was cathartic for the whole audience.

It was cathartic for me too. And after that, I wanted to experience that technique. I wanted to experience what it was to express my feelings. And that’s what I started doing on a regular basis, expressing my feelings with a therapist or by myself. And it was wonderful when I came back to my patients. I shared with them the technique, and for the people that had symptoms that I couldn’t get rid of and couldn’t cure – expressing those feelings really helped them and made them happier, more aware of their body, their feelings, the reason why they were having such or such symptoms. And it was really like very hypnotic in a way. I will use that term. They were so focused on expressing what they were feeling that it made them really feeling better and, as a consequence, living a happier life, being less sick, and having less symptoms, and feeling better. And the neuroscience?

[00:06:06] Dr. Haseltine: well, for me, this observation started two ways. I did a lot of animal research, and what I found is that the animals that would bite me and scratch and spit at me and throw bad things at me did very well with their health. Whereas the ones that got more depressed and withdrawn did less well with their health.

So externalizing their feelings was apparently quite good for them. Although I have a lot of bites and scars. I used to pull teeth out of my head when my snakes would bite me. That was one. Then I was a psychotherapist for seven years in a community mental health center. I also observed that the patients who were better at expressing their emotions and were in touch with their feelings had better health.

[00:06:52] Dr. Patti: I really wanna pull out this message that you’re both communicating really well, which is a happy life doesn’t necessarily mean that there are never any difficult emotions, that there’s never any sadness or any anger that we’re always in a pleasant state. Happiness is something larger than that and requires being in touch with and expressing all those emotions.

The importance of seeing the glass as half full

[00:07:12] Dr. Gilbert: Things are going to happen in our life. It’s how we deal with it, how we deal with what’s negative in our life. And that makes a huge difference. We can see the glass half empty or half full, and I teach people, we teach people to look at the glass half full, because if we look at the glass half empty, then it’s going to be so depressing, but the same glass, we can look at it half full and that will fill us up with the excitement and hope, and that will be critical for our health also.

[00:07:48] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, there’s an interesting nomenclature that’s evolved in mood disorders, which are the primary problem that causes health problems, depression and anxiety, chronic stress, and so forth. And that is the word internalization, where these are really thought of as illnesses that occur because we don’t express our feelings, we don’t get them out, we don’t release them, and we don’t have catharsis.
We bottle stuff up where all that energy does bad work on our bodies. And so just the words that we’re starting to use with certain disorders like anxiety and depression really connote the importance of getting things out and not bottling them up.

[00:08:30] Dr. Patti: Yeah. So paying attention to the body and how the mind and the body are intimately connected. How might someone start with that? And if they want to feel in the body what might be going on because of their emotional state, where would somebody even start to think about it?

How to listen to your body? Physical signs to be aware of

[00:08:44] Dr. Gilbert: It’s important to be aware of our body. Do we have any muscle aches or muscle tension? Are we walking in a very stiff way? Are we walking in a relaxed way? How are we holding our heads? Are we holding our neck straight, or is it sideways? Is it too tense? Is it not relaxed enough? What’s happening with our hands? What are we doing with our fingers when we talk or when we’re waiting for something? What are we doing with our legs when we’re sitting down? Are we just moving our legs constantly? Are we relaxed? Those are all clues to what’s happening in the unconscious. And we need to pay attention to those.

[00:09:27] Dr. Haseltine: Yes. I always found my specialty was domestic violence, particularly violent men. And the thing that we had to do was to first make them aware that they weren’t aware of the feelings in their bodies. What most men would report is that they would observe themselves hitting their wives without having any conscious intent to do so. And so we focused on sensate awareness, where we did guided imagery and really a kind of hypnosis where we actually started them becoming aware of physical sensations such as tightness in their throat or neck or chest clenching of their fists, clenching of their jaws, things like nature that were happening without them being aware. So the first step is making people aware of what they’re not aware of.

[00:10:13] Dr. Patti: And would you say that’s something people could start to do on their own, or do you think a lot of people really need help to just start the journey of getting connected to their bodies?

[00:10:24] Dr. Gilbert: Either way. I mean, some people can start on their own, but it’s true that it would help to have somebody look with them because sometimes they’re not, they won’t be aware. For example, I had a patient coming to me with shoulder pain. Chronic shoulder pain, actually. She was very tight and had a lot of repressed anger and sadness, and I had her express the repressed anger and sadness, but I also had her explore the different movements as she was expressing sadness and anger.

Looking at the different, exploring the different movements of her shoulder and doing bilateral symmetrical movement of shoulders, just freeing the shoulders. And she had not done that in a long time, and it was just like a revelation for her to be able to just freely move those shoulders back and forth. And that’s an example of how people freeze in sadness and anger or stress. They freeze in stress. That’s a better word. And then their muscles tighten up, and then they get chronic pain. They don’t know why they have chronic pain, but they’re so frozen, as if they were in a stiff jacket or something.

[00:11:36] Dr. Haseltine: And I find that the key is motivation. There’s an old joke. How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the light bulb really has to wanna be changed. And so you can give people techniques for sensate awareness and so forth, but unless they want to make that effort, they’re not going to.

Why do people repress their emotions?

[00:11:56] Dr. Haseltine: And this gets to the question of why we are unaware of what we’re unaware of. It’s for good reasons. It’s not random. In evolution, having confidence and not being distracted, those sorts of things are important. And it gets into what Freud called defense mechanisms and repression, of which there’s some truth to that. That we do automatically suppress certain things.

We don’t like feeling angry and out of control. We don’t want to present a picture to others that we’re angry and unhappy. And so we automatically repress, and we’re taught by society and our parents, don’t cry, don’t be emotional, and so forth.

In evolution, having confidence and not being distracted, those sorts of things are important…We don’t like feeling angry and out of control. We don’t want to present a picture to others that we’re angry and unhappy. And so we automatically repress, and we’re taught by society and our parents, don’t cry, don’t be emotional, and so forth.

So I think part of it is the motivation, and part of it is directly addressing the reasons that we suppress our feelings. You can’t let go of something you don’t know you have. And so I think it’s important to spend some time with people talking about the reasons they are that way and to address the motivation.

The connection between chronic stress, inflammation and repressed emotions

[00:12:55] Dr. Patti: Do you see a connection between chronic stress and being more likely to disconnect from that emotional state? So many people in this society are just stressed on a daily basis.

[00:13:07] Dr. Gilbert: Yeah, there is a connection. People have so much stress piling up in their daily life that they don’t have time, nor do they know how to express, to get that stress out of their bodies. Because if it stays inside the body, it’s just going to be bottled in, and then at one point, they’re going to explode because there will be so much tension inside them.
So yeah, chronic stress, it’s an everyday life that people suffer from every single day, and nobody is teaching them what to do. In that case, our parents are certainly not teaching us what to do. They’re not teaching kids how to express their feelings. They’re still teaching the opposite of how not to express your feelings.

[00:13:55] Dr. Haseltine: I wanted to build on Dr. Chris’s comment on chronic stress. What’s very in vogue right now is the role that inflammation plays both in mental illness and in physical illness. The most common mental illnesses are anxiety and depression, and there’s a very strong correlation with inflamed states, cytokines, interferons, tumor necrosis factor, and things like that, where those are much higher in people with anxiety and depression.

And conversely, there’s some belief that depression itself can trigger inflammation. And when you look at the biggest killers, heart disease, stroke, and cancer. All of those are intimately related to inflammation. Chronic inflammation, for example, could lead to rapid cell turnover, mutation, and cancer, whereas inflammation contributes to arterial disease.

And so there’s this vicious circle, or virtuous circle if you want, where patients get into chronic stress, which causes dysregulation of corticosteroids, which cause dysregulation of immune response and autoimmune response and chronic inflammation, which can lead to mental problems, which in turn reinforce physical problems. So the key is getting people to move from a vicious circle of mental problems and inflammation to a virtuous cycle of happiness and no inflammation.

[00:15:22] Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. And in our psychology Today blogs, because we’re writers for psychology today, we tell tricks on how to do this. So every single article can tell a new trick of how to express how to get rid of that chronic stress and get it out of the body so that we get into the virtuous circle. We teach people how to look at the glass half full and relax.
[00:15:49] Dr. Haseltine: That’s right.

Techniques for managing stress

[00:15:50] Dr. Patti: Let’s maybe start talking about a few of those techniques. I know there’s probably way more than you can share on one podcast, but maybe if we could pull out just one or a few simple techniques that somebody who’s just encountering this idea maybe could try out to start their journey.

I’m a very bad singer…When I’m very stressed out, I get in my car all by myself, and I sing my anger out, and I sing sadness out, and I sing my happiness. And I don’t have to be on cue or on key. I just have to express it with beautiful me. When it comes from the heart, it’s beautiful, even if it’s not on key.

[00:16:06] Dr. Gilbert: One that I really like, that I use myself a lot. I’ve used it so much. Singing. I’m a very bad singer. I never took any singing lessons, just lately, but before, not. When I’m very stressed out, I get in my car all by myself, and I sing my anger out, and I sing sadness out, and I sing my happiness.
And I don’t have to be on cue or on key. I just have to express it with beautiful me. When it comes from the heart, it’s beautiful, even if it’s not on key. And I write, I create my own lyrics that match my state. You can do that in the shower or when you’re alone in a room, that is a trick that works for me. One of them.

It’s now clear that aerobic exercise is a great way to relieve built-up stress just by pumping your blood and getting your juices flowing…when you look at depression and anxiety, the number one therapeutic intervention is probably aerobic exercise. Interestingly, that’s the same intervention that’s most effective in heart disease, stroke prevention, and dementia.

[00:16:55] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah. I think the other one, and this is borne out by recent research, has to do with aerobic exercise. It’s now clear that aerobic exercise is a great way to relieve built-up stress just by pumping your blood and getting your juices flowing. But also, it turns out that now when you look at depression and anxiety, the number one therapeutic intervention is probably aerobic exercise. Interestingly, that’s the same intervention that’s most effective in heart disease, stroke prevention, and dementia, which is also probably inflammation related.

[00:17:29] Dr. Gilbert: And if people want to do something very simple, just walk. Go for a walk every day and look at the beautiful nature. Go at your own speed, a speed that is perfect for you. A speed that’s not too fast so that you don’t get too tired and stressed out because of the speed, but the speed is not too slow, either. It needs to be just perfect for you. That’s very simple to do. Everybody can do that every day. It needs to be at least 30 minutes. If they can do 45 minutes, that’s perfect. And if people don’t want, they’re very hesitant to start. They can start with just five minutes a day, going for a walk, five minutes a day, and they will see the difference even with five minutes.

[00:18:14] Dr. Haseltine: I think it’s important to point out though, that everybody’s different. Some people are naturally gonna find it comfortable doing one kind or another. There are some people who, for example, might benefit from beating up on pillows while screaming, while others might not. They might not feel comfortable. And other people would maybe benefit more from meditation or mindfulness interoceptive training techniques. So I think that’s a very important point to bear in mind that everybody’s different and there is no one size fits all. And so having people get in touch with all these techniques, which ones would feel most comfortable to start with. Because getting started is the hardest part.

The importance of accepting all emotions

[00:18:54] Dr. Gilbert: And what’s key also is being very open and welcoming to whoever everybody is. Everybody is unique. So without any criticism: who are you? What works for you, and what doesn’t work for you? And respect that whatever works for you doesn’t have to work for everybody else. As a matter of fact, when Eric tells me to do something, I say, no, it doesn’t work for me.
And you say nothing works for you…I’m very different.

So being accepting of that, okay, we’re different. You are different than everybody else. What works for you? And whatever your doctor says, even though I’m a doctor myself, your doctor doesn’t have all the answers. Your doctor has the answers for 80% of the people. But that 20% that are unique, they’ve got to find out exactly what works for them.

If you get back to why people suppress unpleasant feelings, it’s because they judge them negatively…because we feel jealous or petty or envious or lustful or angry, those feelings are there for a very good evolutionary reason, and they’re very natural. And I think the very first step in being able to get these feelings out is to first embrace them and saying I’m not a bad person for having them.

[00:19:57] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah. I wanna build on this point about acceptance. Again, if you get back to why people suppress unpleasant feelings, it’s because they judge them negatively. For example, someone’s jealous or petty or lustful or whatever else. They are taught that these are bad feelings. The fact is, though, feelings just are. And because we feel jealous or petty or envious or lustful or angry, those feelings are there for a very good evolutionary reason, and they’re very natural. And I think the very first step in being able to get these feelings out is to first embrace them and saying I’m not a bad person for having them.

I don’t have to behave based on these. If I do behave in an angry way, then maybe that’s not good. But having the feeling itself is natural and normal, and everybody has it, and it’s actually unhealthy not to acknowledge that it’s natural to have these feelings. And so really it, like I say, it’s paradoxical, but the first step in letting go of anger is to embrace it.

[00:21:02] Dr. Gilbert: And there are different ways. Like I wrote an article for Psychology Today, which is seven creative ways to express hot Anger. And each of those ways are very cathartic. They’re very good and very different. So everybody can find their own way.

[00:21:21] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, and that article caused me a lot of anger cuz it got way more hits than I’ve ever got before. She kicks my butt in readership. I express that feeling often. Yes.

Choosing happy and healthy relationships for happy, healthy and long life

[00:21:31] Dr. Patti: I love seeing the dynamic between the two of you, and I would love if you could expand a little on how we can work within relationships to support each other in doing this kind of work.

[00:21:48] Dr. Gilbert: The first thing I want to say – our relationship is a wonderful relationship. One of the things that I think is very important that we do, and that I would recommend, is gratitude. Being thankful. Thank each other for what we do for each other. Like, if I do one little thing for Eric, he’s going to thank me immediately. Oh, thank you for doing this.
If he does something for me, I’m going to thank him. And at the end of the day, when we’re about to fall asleep, we will thank each other for the day, what has happened during the day, so I think that’s one really important thing to do.

[00:22:19] Dr. Haseltine: I also want to make a point about happiness and health; having a happy relationship is probably the most important part of being happy in life. I would say that all those years of being a shrink and counseling couples who had problems really brought to me how unbelievably important it is for this earlier topic we talked about – accepting feelings as they are and not judging them. So we do have disputes, and we do have different wants and needs, but what I think we do is respect whatever the other person is feeling. We never say you shouldn’t be feeling that, or why are you feeling that?

It’s always okay. I hear that’s what you’re feeling. I may not understand why you feel that way, but I can’t argue with the fact and do feel that way and not judge or criticize it. So, for example, typically in a relationship in a house, women, I think tend to have honey-do list and all sorts of being neat and normal.

One of us is very neat and organized, and one of us is not. And so when I get a request from Chris, and she frames it, and this is an I want for me, and this is how I feel, I’m a lot more likely to be okay with it. Even if I don’t wanna do it and I’m lazy or whatever.

If she says, I want this for me because this is how I feel, then I’m gonna be a lot more okay with it because it’s an I statement instead of a you statement, you’re a slob, blah, blah, blah, which I am by the way, but I take that much harder than I want this.

And so part of it is we’ve both been trained in this, but part of it also is just I think that’s the number one most important thing to a happy relationship is to validate and accept the other person’s feelings on their face without questioning or criticizing.
Because there’s nothing more stressful or invalidating than to have someone gaslight you and say you shouldn’t be feeling that way.

[00:24:14] Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. And it’s also asking what the other person needs. Like I ask Eric, what do you need from me? What can I do for you? And he asked the same thing of me. And we really make sure that we give the other one what the other one needs. Without any criticism. Without any thinking twice about it. If this is what he needs, I’m going to give it to him. And vice versa. And I think that’s important.

But I also want to say that, as you said before, it’s not only part of the day. Our 24 hours is not only work, but it’s also relationship. So being happy and finding the work that is perfect for us is only one side or one aspect of a happy life.

Having a happy relationship is probably the most important part of being happy in life…depending on whether we choose the right person for us, a very compatible person for us, will determine how happy our life is going to be, which will determine how healthy will be, which should determine how long our life will be.

Finding the companion, the partner that will be with us for the rest of our lives, is the other key ingredient for a happy life. And our parents don’t teach us that. So that’s another article I wrote which is what are the different key ingredients for a happy relationship. When we choose a partner, how do we choose the right partner? Right now, people tend to choose it; oh yeah, I’m happy; sex is good. Okay, I’m going to go with that person. Well, no! There are other aspects that are going to be important. Are you compatible on the spiritual side? On the intellectual side and the financial aspect? There are a lot of different aspects that we need to be able to be on the same page as the other person. And depending on whether we choose the right person for us, a very compatible person for us or not, will determine how happy our life is going to be or not, which will determine how healthy will be or not, which should determine how long our life will be. Also, not only work but that other aspect is important.

[00:26:10] Dr. Patti: Yeah. Remembering that investing in other people is investing in yourself because we are all connected and we have to invest in each other for everyone to do well.

[00:26:20] Dr. Haseltine: That’s right. And one aspect of that is the overlap between relationship and work. For example, I like to make Chris happy, and the thing that makes her most happy in my work, she helps me with my work, is she finds flaws and problems in it. For example, I developed a weapon detector that you could just walk through without having to take off your keys or belt or anything else.
It was an AI that looked at various signals, and she came up with a way of putting a gun in her shoe under the sole of her foot that completely fooled my AI, and I’ve never seen her happier in her life. Then when she goes, ha, I gotcha. That’s what makes her happy.

[00:26:59] Dr. Gilbert: So we have ADHD, which means we have different interests. Eric is an inventor as well as a neuroscientist. I’m a writer. I’m also an actor as well as a physician. So we have so many different interests, and we overlap on a lot of different ones and we help each other with all those. We’re never boring.

How do you actually listen to your body? Tips and exercises

[00:27:21] Dr. Patti: Let’s get into how people can use the body to explore emotions. So we’ve talked a little bit about using art, talking with other people, going on walks, and you had touched earlier on people having particular pains in the body or feeling particular things and then using a little bit of movement to explore that. So maybe dive a little bit more into what that process looks like.

Being aware of here and now – Exercise

[00:27:46] Dr. Gilbert: What I use is more the Gestalt therapy process, which is being aware of here and now. So we can do the exercise right now, all of us, and take a few deep breaths.

And another deep breath, ah, and see what are you feeling inside your body? What physical feeling? Are you feeling any pain anywhere? Any tension? Anywhere in your throat, in your chest, in your belly, in your legs? What are you feeling? And as you focus on what you’re feeling, give your feeling of voice.

So, for example, what am I feeling now? I’m feeling, oh, I’m feeling butterflies in my chest right now. It’s a little shaking inside my chest. Yeah, lots of butterflies. And so give this a voice. So the butterflies that I’m feeling in my chest, It’s as if they were flying everywhere. It’s related to my excitement right now of being on your podcast. And so whatever you guys are feeling, whatever the listener is feeling, give it a voice. It starts with a body. It starts with here and now. Describe it: If there is a special color associated with what you’re feeling, a special movement associated with your feeling. A special image that comes to mind associated with your feeling. And express it out loudly. We can talk about the studies with Lieberman at UCLA.

[00:29:40] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah. Matthew Lieberman is a friend of mine at UC. He’s a social neuroscientist who studies the social part of the brain. He found that just by vocalizing your emotions, you can reduce amygdala activation and stress.

Treating different parts of your body as if they were separate individuals

But I wanna come back to your question. One thing from Dr. Chris’s book, The Listening Cure, in which she describes a way to do what you’re saying by treating different parts of your body as if they were unique and separate individuals. So, for example, your back is its own person. Your stomach is its own person and various body parts.
And that is not actually metaphorical; it’s literal.

Take your gut, for example. You have in your enteric nervous system somewhere around 700 million neurons, which is approximately what a fairly advanced primate has in its cerebral cortex. So it literally means you’ve got the intelligence of a monkey in your gut, literally.
And with what’s going on with gut bacteria, the fact that you might actually have a separate personality that’s sentient and intelligent inside your body that’s separate from your brain is now not just a metaphor. It’s literally true. And, of course, you have various ganglia that control different parts of your body and the autonomic nervous system.
And so what I have loved most about working with Dr. Chris and her listening cure concept is that you think of different parts of your bodies as different conscious, sentient entities. Not necessarily people, but I think of them as kind of animals.

When you think about it, we are not a single integrated organism. We are made up of many trillions of different kinds of cells, each have their own agenda. Sometimes they compete with each other. Your taste buds may love pepperoni, but your stomach may not. And so, all the cells in our body don’t necessarily cooperate and work toward the same goal all the time.

And when you think about it, we are not a single integrated organism. We are made up of many trillions of different kinds of cells, each have their own agenda. Sometimes they compete with each other. Your taste buds may love pepperoni, but your stomach may not. And so, all the cells in our body don’t necessarily cooperate and work toward the same goal all the time.
And those kinds of conflicts are what Dr. Chris talks about in her book, where when your mind wants to do one thing, and your back suffers for it, your back will get louder and louder until your brain starts paying attention to it.

[00:31:48] Dr. Gilbert: In our book, the Listening Cure, each chapter is about a different technique. And in the end, you’ve got exercises. But one of the chapters is what we call the group therapy with a bunch of chairs all around in a circle. That’s the family. And on each chair, I’m going to ask each organ to give a voice to speak.

So, for example, the stomach will sit on one chair. So if somebody, I’m gonna take my example. I love chocolate, but it makes me sick. My bowel doesn’t like chocolate, but my mouth loves chocolate. So if I take the group family setting on one chair, I’m gonna put my mouth that’s going to say, oh my god, chocolate. I love chocolate. I want chocolate all the time. And then my stomach we’ll be on the next chair. My stomach will say, oh yeah, chocolate. That would be so good. Oh, we’re longing for chocolate. And then my bowel will be on the next chair and will say no, no, no, I’m going to get sick!!! Don’t, don’t, don’t!

[00:32:51] Dr. Haseltine: And so that gives rise to compromise. Maybe the mouth in the stomach could say, what if we just have a little bit? And the bowel says, how much is a little? Because you want everybody to be a little bit happy. But that’s kind of the point. And it’s weird how interpersonal relationships best find solutions. It’s the same way that you can find solutions inside your own body by treating your different body parts as separate individuals, which in fact, they are.

In fact, I’ve had a lot of lower back pain recently. Yeah. And one of us who’s got an MD instead of just a PhD, said Eric, I wouldn’t call it super sympathetic in the sense that, well, your back’s been talking to you now for years, and you haven’t been listening. When are you gonna listen?

[00:33:35] Dr. Gilbert: That’s true. So the back has a voice, and the
back will say I don’t wanna be lifting heavy things. Don’t lift heavy things. And the mind is going to say, oh no, I’m 20 years old. I’m so young. No, I can lift anything I want. And the back says, no, you’re not 20 anymore.

It’s the dialogue. What I like about the gestalt aspect is the drama. Again, I’m an actress also, and it’s being able to express the different parts of us dramatically, which for me, it’s such a release. Other people may hate it, and they will want to do meditation and yoga. Just need to find the people for whom this kind of work works for them or is effective.

Becoming aware of warning signs before they become a larger problem

[00:34:21] Dr. Patti: And this idea that things that we don’t listen to or don’t get in touch with are going to just become louder and louder until they find a way to get our attention. So you may as well listen now while it’s easier.

[00:34:33] Dr. Haseltine: That’s right.

[00:34:34] Dr. Gilbert: That’s right. And that’s the lesson that I tell my patients. You pay attention to the beginning of the symptom whenever you have the beginning of something because if you don’t pay attention, it’s going to get louder, and it’s going to cause trouble if you don’t listen. So what is it that’s happening? Sometimes eric tells me, you’re worried about something, and I say, no, I’m not worried about anything. He says, yeah, you look worried. So he sees in me something that I’m worried about when I’m not even aware of it, but my body shows the signs of being more worried.

Dr. Haseltine: And that’s not EQ (Emotional intelligence). That’s Survival

Dr. Gilbert: What is it inside of me that makes you see that?

Dr. Haseltine: I can’t tell you what it is. It’s like when I was an intelligence officer and got involved in interrogating; we’ll call them detainees. And we got into the questioning, and I was called in as a neuroscientist to detect deception. And the most fascinating thing was that there were intelligence officers who could tell whether the detainee was lying or not, not by looking at the detainee, but by looking at the interrogator through a glass window. And they would look at that person and say the guy’s lying based on what the interrogator’s body language is saying.

And if you ask both the interrogator and the observer who was picking that up, what they were picking up, they couldn’t tell you. It wasn’t a thought; it was a feeling. It was something primal in that other part of them. And that’s what, when I’m reacting to Dr. Chris, I can’t tell you what it is. It’s a feeling; it’s kind of mirror neurons, I think or going off where I’m feeling what she’s feeling. And that’s what I, you know, I’m feeling uncomfortable. There’s some resonance there. And I can’t tell you what it is.

Dr. Gilbert: Like when I see people walking in the street, if I see a person that is not smiling but has a contraction spasm in their face like while walking, you can tell that person is not happy. That person is stressed out. Also, the way that person walks in a staccato way, and if I ask that person, are you stressed out? The person might say no, I’m fine. I’m my normal self. The person will not be aware of their face being tense and their way of walking being tense. So that’s what we’re talking about, signs, physical signs that people need to be aware of.

Also, that’s another Psychology Today article we wrote is about being aware of how you look in pictures. People that take pictures of us and post pictures on Facebook, the way you look in pictures might show something that you’re not aware of.

[00:37:23] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, that’s right. I do want to come back to one thing about getting people to be aware of their feelings and what’s going on in their bodies.

Becoming aware of urgent body sensations

[00:37:25] Dr. Haseltine: Let’s get real. Humans all have what neuroscientists call temporal myopia. It says we care about things that are here and now and things that are later we don’t care about.

So an inch of now is worth a mile of then. That’s the way our brains are wired for very good reasons. If somebody like me has a little back pain, is it a problem right now? Well, A little bit, but I got other problems. I got customers, I got this, I got that, I got deadlines. And so the tyranny of the urgent always trumps the pursuit of the important. It’s just human nature.

And so, really, what you’re tackling with anybody when it comes to a near-term behavior you want from them, is they just don’t see the motivation for it.

And that’s why I keep coming back to – the most important thing is motivation. A Frenchman, Jean Monnet, said people only change out of necessity and only recognize necessity in crisis. I don’t think that’s ever gonna change. That’s human nature. So really, the question is how do you bring the bad consequences of the far future into the present?

And that is where the battle has to be fought right there. The way we fight it, my wife, who’s a doctor, says better earlier than later. And I’ve learned it’s always good to pay attention to her because when I don’t, bad things happen.

Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. And it’s just like, I’m going to give a medical example. If somebody has a little bit of blood in their stools and they say, oh, I’m not gonna address this. I’ll address this later. Then that could transform into colon cancer and maybe metastatic colon cancer. Whereas if it’s addressed right away, oh, there’s a little bit of blood, let’s go and see your physicians. Let’s get a colonoscopy. We find a little polyp that’s bleeding. We snippet, poof done no more, no cancer, no metastasis, no nothing. Be aware of what your body is saying and the signs that your body is showing. If you feel a little bit short of breath or a little bit of chest pain when you go up a hill, go and see a cardiologist. Make sure you don’t have any heart disease. Address it right away. Take a statin, and do the steps needed to avoid myocardial infarction (* Heart attack). All those are extremely important. So we need to pay attention to the way the body feels, but also symptoms inside the body that can be key to longevity.

Bringing the future into the present for a happy life, the Weber-Fechner law

[00:39:45] Dr. Haseltine: I wanna come back to the motivational issue because I do think the fulcrum of the issue is near term versus long term. And why do I do this now? Dr. Chris just published an article on this where she talked about imagination and kind of going into a time machine and imagining the future and then not liking that future and saying, Ooh, I gotta, it’s kind of like the ghost of Christmas future in Scrooge.

That’s very clever what Dickens did because it shows a way to bring the future into the present. Your latest article which got way more hits than my latest article.

[00:40:18] Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. The exercise is we don’t appreciate what we have. We can see, we can hear, we can use our fingers, and we can use our legs. Whatever we have, we’re not aware of, and we don’t appreciate it unless it’s gone. Once it’s gone, we say, oh my God, what we had was so precious, we didn’t even appreciate it.

The trick for me and the exercise is just to imagine yourself, get into a time machine, step into it and imagine you are getting to be 100 years old. The future is now you’re 100 years old. For people in their nineties, imagine they’re 120 years old in a nursing home, cared for by complete strangers. They cannot see very well anymore. They can’t hear, and they have trouble with balance. They can’t walk well. They have trouble with incontinence. They’re really miserable. Imagine this, take a deep breath,
and then get back into the time machine and get back to the present moment where, oh, I have loved ones. I have my husband next to me. I’m not alone. Oh, I can hear, I can smell, I can see well, and I don’t have trouble with incontinence. I can use my legs. I don’t have trouble with balance.

It’s wonderful. And appreciate this because what your imagination, where it took you, was dreadful, and now you can really appreciate what you have because of the Weber-Fechner laws.

A lot of happiness and, therefore, health comes from somehow being happy with a steady state and the Weber-Fechner law. This is a psychophysics neuroscience term where basically our brains do not respond to steady state conditions. They only respond to change. So if things are steady, we don’t actually even pay attention to them. It’s only when things get better or worse that we pay attention, and only for a little bit.

Dr. Haseltine: Yes, that’s a very important point. A lot of happiness and, therefore, health comes from somehow being happy with a steady state and the Weber-Fechner fraction. This is a psychophysics neuroscience term where basically our brains do not respond to steady state conditions. They only respond to change. So if things are steady, we don’t actually even pay attention to them. It’s only when things get better or worse that we pay attention, and only for a little bit.

Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. It also depends on how much better or how much worse things are. So if it’s a lot worse, a lot better, your brain is going to pay much more attention to it, then it’s just a little bit worse, a little bit better. If two people are being given $10,000 as a gift and one person is making $5,000 a year, and the other person is making 1 million a year. Well, the person who is making $5,000 a year and who received a $10,000 gift is going to say, oh my God, this is wonderful! And the person who makes 1 million a year receiving your $10,000 gifts, we’ll say, oh, its just peanuts.

Dr. Haseltine: So the same thing can make you happy or not happy gets back to what Dr. Chris said in life. It’s not what happens to us; it’s how we react to it. And so happiness is really all in how we react to things and what I love about her latest article is that it talks about a way to create a big change in your brain that it will pay attention to, which is imagining a big change in the future. So I would say to all of your young listeners out there, imagine that you’re me, Dr. Haseltine, you’re a septuagenarian, and you’ve got skin cancer all over the place from being out in the sun too long. Your teeth aren’t in the best shape. Your back is, you know, crap. You’ve got all kinds of problems because your body remembers. So I would tell that to young people. Remember that your body does remember, and you don’t wanna be me. Do that imagination.

Dr. Gilbert: Yes, yes, yes. And another thing that could be interesting is to imagine you’re 100 years old; you’re much older, and what would your 100-year-old say to you now? What advice would your 100-year-old say? To tell you what to do and what not to do now, and follow that advice.

Dr. Patti: Probably all of us have had the experience of, you know, something bad happens, a problem happens, and we think, oh, if only I’d paid attention sooner, I could have done something about this. Recognizing that your future problems can be solved now if you’re paying a little bit more attention.

Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, but we’re not going to, you know, we say that and so that’s why what is all important is somehow bringing the future into the present, and there are tricks to do that.

Dr. Gilbert: But after this podcast, we will pay attention to that. So this podcast is going to transform our lives.

Dr. Haseltine: It’ll change the world. Yes, absolutely.

Dr. Patti: Get lots of likes and everything.

The benefits of meditation

[00:44:46] I remember you, Dr. Haseltine talking a little bit about using meditation for this. So for anybody who might resonate with that idea of doing this in a more sort of quiet, introspective way, do you have any advice on how to get started with that?

[00:45:02] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, there are many meditation techniques. I’ve used Transcendental meditation, which is very simple. It takes almost no training, and it basically amounts to finding a quiet place and having the same place and the same time. You do it every day, and it starts with breathing, and it starts with clearing your head of thoughts.
Although when thoughts come, don’t fight them.

And so basically, there’s a very strange thing. You cannot tell people not to do something. Like If I tell you in your audience, do not think about rutabagas. These root-like vegetables, or whether they’re root or vegetable, I’m not sure. But don’t think about it.
Don’t think about rutabagas. Do not. Whatever you do, do not think about rutabagas! Guess what? You’re going to think about rutabagas.

So our brains cannot not do things. Our brain can only do other things that are inconsistent with the thing you don’t want to do. And that’s what meditation is all about. You let go of the obsessive thoughts and the worries and the things that are stressing you by doing something else.
And in meditation, one form is a mantra. And the only purpose of the mantra really is to give your brain something to do so that it can let go and not do other things. There are a lot of different techniques in meditation that research has shown. All of them are equally effective and, interestingly, reduce inflammation, like I say, which is the hot thing.
That and gut bacteria are all the rage right now, and they’re related, but the point is that you have to do something in your meditative state that is inconsistent with kind of obsessive perseverative thinking.

[00:46:38] Dr. Patti: And that’s interesting. I see a little bit of a dichotomy here in that we want to notice and pay attention to some of these things that are arising while at the same time, we want to avoid getting stuck in a loop or getting obsessed with the particular things that are arising.

[00:46:57] Dr. Haseltine: That’s right. It is a little bit paradoxical, but it comes back to the same concept that my clinical supervisor when I was an intern, said. You can’t let go of something you don’t admit having. So in order to move away from something, you have to first move toward it. Yeah, that’s paradoxical, but guess what, you know, that’s life.

How our foods and gut bacteria affect our mood and happiness

[00:47:17] Dr. Gilbert: I want to comment on something that Eric said. Gut bacteria are really important, and depending on what we eat, we are going to get some gut bacteria to grow and some others to not grow so much. So what we put in our stomach is extremely important, and gut bacteria are also critical for the kind of disease we might have in the future for the kind of inflammation we might have in the future.

So the main thing is to be very careful with sugar, and processed food. All processed food usually contains a lot of sugar, which could be high fructose corn syrup or any kind of other sugar. And when you look at the type of cereals that people feed their kids, if you look at the ingredients of all those cereals you’ve got in a typical store, you’ve got hundreds of brands of cereals and different types where you look at the ingredients of those.
Pretty much all of those but maybe two types will contain sugar. And what I teach my patients is to read all the ingredients of what you’re eating when it’s processed food, and that’s critical for your health in general. So there are a lot of things to pay attention to, not only the way you are holding yourself, what you’re feeling inside your body, but also what you put inside your body.

[00:48:44] Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, I’d like to build on that by pointing out how the need for sugar, and mood disorders, and stress and everything are related and how it can be a self-reinforcement vicious circle.

Why do we eat sweet things? There’s a simple reason. Well, they taste good, but it turns out that for many people, food is a drug of choice.
Particularly comfort food, particularly simple carbohydrates when you’re not feeling good. Like this happened to me. I’m an inventor, and things don’t go right, and my customers aren’t behaving the way I want and I get stressed out. So I go to McDonald’s and get a McFlurry to medicate my anxiety, right?
But then what happens is that sugar promotes the not-so-good gut bacteria and leads to inflammation, which in itself makes me feel worse, which makes me wanna have more sugar. What Dr. Chris is talking about with diet is integrally related to mood and happiness.

Dr. Gilbert: But do our parents teach us how to eat the right way? No. They don’t teach us to look at all the ingredients of what we’re eating. They don’t teach us that processed food is not good. They don’t teach us that sugar is not good. They don’t teach us that what’s the best is a fruit or lettuce, radishes, raw carrots, celery sticks, or cauliflower.
And I think that needs to be changed because it all starts when we are children and what we’re used to be fed when we’re children, we usually enjoy eating when we’re more adults because it reminds us of our childhood. And sometimes it’s not that good.

Tips to help with sugar cravings

[00:50:21] Dr. Patti: And I see potentially there could be an opportunity to notice that you’re craving sugar, and rather than just go for the sugar, you think about why what am I feeling that’s making that craving arise? And maybe you can find a different way.

Dr. Haseltine: That’s really important. And what don’t I wanna feel. With me, it’s very conscious. I’m feeling anxiety and fear, and I want sugar to damp that down. And I’m totally aware of it, and I’m totally all right with it until I feel the guilt after I consume the last part of the McFlurry.

Dr. Patti: Would there be techniques people could use for kind of interfering in that cycle? Something else that they could do?

Dr. Haseltine: You have to have behavior substitution. You can’t tell your brain don’t go to McDonald’s, and I shouldn’t pick on McDonald’s, but don’t go to a fast food store with yellow and orange…

But the point is that you have to have a substitute behavior. So you might have something around that can medicate your, you know, there are different ways of medicating anxiety, taking a deep breath, guided imagery. There are a bunch of different ones. But for me, it would probably be having something around to put in my mouth that’s not as unhealthy.

Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. And for me, it’s going for a walk. If I feel a little bit anxious, I just say, okay, I’m going to go to the fridge. No. Let me go for a walk instead. And when I come back from my walk, I don’t have any cravings anymore. I find that the more I exercise, the less I need to eat for anxiety reasons. Cause my body doesn’t need very much food, really that many calories. And if I eat a lot of calories, that’s when I’m anxious. And there was a study that was published about that, that if you exercise a lot, you’re going to eat just the right amount for what you need for your exercise, but not more. But if you don’t exercise, you’re going to way overeat.

Dr. Haseltine: Yeah. I’d just like to make one point, and this is from behavioral psychology in the way you extinguish behaviors. I guess the point is shaping, which is a gradual ramp instead of an abrupt ramp. If you say, I’m never gonna have sugar again of any kind, but I’m going to do something else like celery, which has no sugar, or rutabagas, by the way. You could munch on rutabagas; that’ll do it. The point is that I think a gentle off-ramp versus a steep cliff is a smarter way to go.

I think that you have to take people as they really are, not as you theoretically would like them to be.
And the way people really are is they have strong habit strength. They’re very focused on the near term and instant gratification…Instead of saying I’m never going to have sugar again of any kind, I rather put something healthy in my mouth, like carrots or celery….Maybe start with some dip, and then gradually reduce the dip…I think a gentle off-ramp versus a steep cliff is a smarter way to go.

Just thinking out loud here, I got to have sugar, but a carrot actually has quite a bit of sugar in it. And so, if I had carrots, I’d get some of that sugar rush, but it would be a whole lot healthier than what I have been doing. So I think that you have to take people as they really are, not as you theoretically would like them to be.

And the way people really are is they have strong habit strength. They’re very focused on the near term and instant gratification. And so that being the case and knowing what people are like, I would like to take a bunch of carrots to the lab, and maybe I’ll start to do that because it recognizes the reality. I’m gonna have to put something in my mouth. I’m gonna have to get some sugar out of it. So, reduce the harm from the negative behaviors and have a gentle off-ramp versus jumping off a cliff.

Dr. Gilbert: Yeah, do the celery sticks and the carrots, but without any dip cuz it’s in the dip that all the calories and the sugar are.

Dr. Haseltine: Maybe you start with some dip, and then you gradually reduce the dip. Remember, shaping, shaping, shaping. Gradual.

Dr. Patti: Right? Or go to bananas, which are a little more sugary, and then maybe step down to carrots, which are less, and slowly over time, you get to where you wanna be.

Dr. Haseltine: I think that’s more realistic for how people really are.

Dr. Gilbert: But everybody, again, everybody’s different.
So what would be very interesting is to open the floor to all our listeners and ask them, each one of them, give us just a couple of words; what would work for you? And everybody will probably give a different, completely different answer. And that’s what’s beautiful about humans in general, is that everybody has their own solution there, have their own beauty and their own solutions that works uniquely for them.
And for me, it’s a delight to discover what works for each person, each individual.
Dr. Patti: Beautiful message.

The importance of acceptance in healthy aging

[00:54:31] Amir: You said something huge in particular with healthy aging, which is the importance of acceptance. Now, as a part of aging, we all know we should expect some pain and some deterioration of the system. So for a person that is very into longevity, are there any tips? Because it’s almost like a conflict, we’re telling people you should accept there’s going to be some natural decline. At the same time, that person’s intention is, I don’t want these; I want to stay young. I don’t want pain. The pain is bad, and the limitation is bad. It’s all about longevity.

[00:55:06] Dr. Gilbert: My take on it is, yes, there are more aches and pains, but there are also some pluses. People are wiser, and they have more life experience. They can make a huge difference in the kind of advice they can give to others, to younger people, because of their experience. They have a global view of the world that is very different. Again looking at the glass half empty would be only looking at the aches and pains that are more, but looking at the glass half full is what is it that I have?

What is it that this older person has that other people don’t have? Again, everybody will be different. One person can give better advice for choosing a mate. Another will know exactly how to play the piano or how to sing or advise about life in general. What does that person learn over her or his life that they can teach the message? The unique message from a person who is older is fascinating.

Dr. Haseltine: I totally agree with that.

Becoming a SuperAger: youthful aging as a self-fulfilling prophecy

[00:56:12] Dr. Haseltine: Dale Carnegie said the mark of a mature mind is one that can hold two contradictory thoughts at once in their head. And here’s a contradictory thought, which isn’t necessarily negating what Dr. Chris just said. I think there’s some great power in denying reality where we accept our feelings unconditionally and those of others as just being existentially what they are.

I wrote an article for Psychology Today that did very well, that says your brain is only as old as you think it is. There is this phenomenon in psychology called the self-fulfilling prophecy.

The most important research was done on education, where they did experiments in the sixties where teachers were told (they would never do this today, by the way), but back then, they said to certain teachers these students are smart; these students are dumb. And they looked over the years at how those students did, and they were randomly chosen, irrespective of their true intelligence.

And guess what? The students who were treated as if they were smart got smarter. And the ones that were treated as they weren’t didn’t.

I think it’s hugely important that, on the one hand, you acknowledge and accept aging, and on the other hand, you have to completely deny it. I really believe that we’re only as old as our brains think they are. We’re now finding that our brain is exactly like a muscle; the more you exercise it, it literally grows in size. So just as you can make your muscles look still good into your seventies and eighties, you can keep your brain young by not admitting or accepting that it has to get old.

And so self-fulfilling prophecies are hugely important. And what messages have we gotten about aging in our brains? Do we lose brain cells as we age? Do we get slower as we age? Do we get less creative? Do our memories go away?

And it turns out that some of that is true, but not nearly as much as we suppose. For example, there’s this whole new category called SuperAgers. We’re finding that some people lose almost no cognitive ability as they get older.

This is going to sound a little awkward, but I have 70 patents, 60 of which I got after the age of 60. And it’s because I refuse to believe that my brain is getting older. And part of it is I worked at Disney, where you have to be a kid to design toys and things like that.
But I think that it’s hugely important that, on the one hand, you have to acknowledge and accept, and on the other hand, you have to completely deny, and I really believe that we’re only as old as our brains think they are. And we’re now finding, for example, that your brain is exactly like a muscle. And the more you exercise it, it literally grows in size. So just as you can make your muscles look still good into your seventies and eighties, you can keep your brain young by not admitting or accepting that it has to get old.

Dr. Gilbert: There’s a friend of mine who is older, she’s a grandmother, and she’s got so many aches and pains; her body is just falling apart. But she’s spending a lot of time with her grandchildren, and she plays with them, and she talks with them, and that makes her feel really happy. She’s not thinking about her aches and pains anymore because her grandchildren are her whole world, and the grandchildren really love her, want to be with her, and they have a wonderful time.

So get together with younger people, play with the younger people, with the grandchildren, or volunteer for other people. There has to be a way to be happy, even in old age.

Amir: I think that’s a big takeaway for people and especially how we see ourselves as we age. For some people, it means that they have to look into reality and understand why is it still important to me all these things? And see the full part of the glass. Be aware of life and their perspective, how they see themselves, how they see their life, and what role they play.

Dr. Haseltine: That’s so important because we often forget that we are social animals, and our view of ourselves is much dictated by others’ view of us, which in turn is viewed by our view of ourselves. I’ve had people I’ve worked with tell me, “you’re that old? I thought you were just 45!” I truly in my head think of myself as being about eight years old. I’m not joking about that. That’s literally the case. And so people who know me, I don’t think they view me as an old fart, and so that helps reinforce my own self-image, which kind of makes them think of me. And so this whole self-fulfilling prophecy thing is very deep, and it has a lot to do with our social milieu and our own feelings about ourselves.

Yes, there are parts of you that are getting old. There are parts of you that are aching. Now, there are other parts of you that are still very good and that you can have a lot of enjoyment out of. Let’s focus on those parts of you that are working well. What can we do with those? How can you enjoy life with those? We’ve got to accept that some parts are not working well, but let’s focus on the other parts.

Dr. Gilbert: So advice for the listeners is, yes, there are parts of you that are getting old. There are parts of you that are aching. Now, there are other parts of you that are still very good and that you can have a lot of enjoyment out of. And let’s focus on those parts of you that are working well. What can we do with those? How can you enjoy life with those? We’ve got to accept that there are some parts of you that are not working well, but let’s focus on the other parts.

Finding and nurturing who you truly are

[01:00:54] Dr. Haseltine: I just wanna make one comment about being happy. And realizing who you really are as opposed to who you think you should be. My sister is an MD, Ph.D. She’s very famous for having founded the Woman’s Health Movement. She’s in the National Academies and is very famous. She said to me a few years ago, you know, if I’d had to do it all over, I’d be a mechanical engineer. She loves gears and mechanisms and things like that. And she said, as a young person, pay a lot of attention to what you pay attention to. She said she always paid attention to bridges, mechanisms, gears, and things like that. But in our family, my dad was a physicist, and you had to go on and get a Ph.D., but she said I would’ve been happier just being a mechanical engineer.

And so, for me now, I was a senior executive most of my career. I never actually did anything on the bench, and now I spend all my time in the lab inventing things because that’s who I really am as a person. And it takes a lot of money, actually a lot. But Chris never really complains about it cuz it makes me happy. That’s who I am. Do that thing that chooses you, not that you choose, is one of the keys to a long happy life.

Dr. Gilbert: So when you get older, what is it that you would’ve wished your whole life to do that you’ve never done? And maybe do that. The other thing is you don’t need to choose really something to do. You can go on a journey like you are older, and you’re exploring the different ways of being happy and write about that journey. Now we’re in an age where everybody can have their TikTok little video or their little podcast or Facebook page write about this.

Okay, today I tried this, and today I tried that. Be public about what you are trying, what works, and what doesn’t work. Other people might really like the fact that you’re exploring for them, and you might be a model for other people. Anything is possible at any age. If you’re lucky enough to be now 100 years old, write about what it is to be 100 years old.
Teach us our generation what it is and what we can do. Explore for us the different ways to be happy at 100 years old. And tell us what you’re finding. I think that would be an idea.

Do that thing that chooses you, not that you choose… And you don’t need to choose really something to do. You can go on a journey like you are older, and you’re exploring the different ways of being happy. You have something to bring to teach us, to teach all of us… Find out what it is that is your strength, what it is that makes you happy, and teach us how to explore that and how to be happy and have a long life.

Dr. Patti: Something I see the two of you do for each other, and maybe people with children in their lives or anybody else in their lives reflect back to other people around you when you see them enjoying something and celebrate and encourage when you see people like diving into those things.

Dr. Haseltine: Yeah, pay attention to role models. I had a role model who unfortunately just died at almost 90 last year. I wrote about him in my spy thriller. It was a true story. He’s an NSA intelligence officer. He was quite advanced in age, but he was sharp as a tack and he never lost his passion for invention and tinkering.

And we resonated on that level and became partners and good friends. , But I looked at him, and I said, well, he’s 90, you know, and look what he’s doing. I think we can be role models for others, but we should also pay attention to when people are succeeding, not when they’re sliding downhill.

Dr. Patti: The two of you are really excellent role models. I appreciate that you came to share with us and to show us what’s possible in life. And to encourage everybody to really open up to feeling their own experience and exploring what makes them feel joy and passion. Any parting words? Any advice that you really want people to focus on?

Dr. Gilbert: Just that everybody’s different. So you are different. The audience, whoever is listening, you are different. You have something to bring to teach us, to teach all of us. Find out what it is that is your strength, what it is that makes you happy, and teach us how to explore that and how to be happy and have a long life.

Dr. Haseltine: And I would say a little bit as a contrarian, if you don’t age in your brain, you won’t age in your body. If you stay young in your brain, in your own view, you’ll stay as young as your body. There’s that great statement that George Bernard Shaw said, we don’t stop playing because we get older. We get older because we stop playing.

Dr. Gilbert: Yeah. So keep on playing.

Dr. Haseltine: Keep on playing.

Dr. Patti: What an amazing message. Thank you so much for being here. We feel so, so lucky to be able to share this beautiful message with everybody out there.

Dr. Haseltine & Dr. Gilbert: Thank you. It’s been so much fun. Thank you for having us.

Amir: We’re super grateful. Thank you so much. So many beautiful messages. Thank you